“What you do speaks so loudly I can’t hear what you’re saying”
~ Liam Gillen
Rapid change in our environment and the business landscape affects our connection with each other.
Take a mindful approach to leadership by connecting one-one in our relationships, listening consciously and giving up our personal expectations of the other. Communicating to people that they are valued partners in your business shows them respect and honour and allows the other to respond in kind. Trust, empathy and a mindful approach encourages engagement and levels the playing field at work.
In this episode, we’re talking about mindfulness strategies to help you effectively be present in your communication with others.
00:02 – Introduction
01:22 – Understanding that everyone is suffering will level the playing field
03:22 – The unconscious impact of environment on people
05:46 – Creating a safe for truth in communication
08:25 – Where is empathy in marketing going?
10:52 – How to handicap your business with fear
13:52 – Running a marathon is infectious
20:49 – GPD of wellbeing
22:58 – Pain is a great motivator
24:14 – Change the world change the experience of yourself
30:10 – A mindful approach to business planning
33:22 – Jack Canfield failed the first time
34:35 – There’s in-joy in stress
36:23 – What you do speaks so loudly I can’t hear what you’re saying
Speaker bio
Liam Gillen has dedicated much of the last fifteen years to being deeply involved in meditation and spirituality, and is passionate about helping people who are seeking a deeper experience of life. He coaches one-on-one and develops and delivers his own workshops and retreats focused on creating and maintaining a mindful approach to living your best life. As CEO of Amrit Yoga Institute, he had the opportunity of bringing his business expertise to the Yoga environment implementing a vision to bring the deep teachings of Yogic philosophy to a broader audience.
Before that, Liam had an accomplished career as a senior-level executive, consultant, and entrepreneur, with extensive experience in real estate, education, and the hospitality industries. He has lived and worked in many countries around the world. Liam holds an MBA and is an E-RYT500/YACEP Instructor certified in Yoga, Yoga Nidra and Yoga Therapy.
Thank you for tuning in to the Leader Lounge Community podcast. If you enjoyed this episode today, be sure to hit follow and share with your friends and community.
Links to additional resources
Liam Gillen’s website: https://www.liamgillen.com
Liam Gillen on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/liamgillen
Liam Gillen on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yogatherapywithLiam/
Leader Lounge on Spotify: http://leaderlounge.community
Leader Lounge on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leader_lounge_community/
April Qureshi’s website: https://aprilqureshi.com
April on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/april-qureshi/
April’s books on Amazon: http://booksbyapril.ca
Book April to speak at your event: http://aprilspeaks.ca
Originally broadcast in May 2020 during the Lead From Within Global Leadership Summit at the onset of the global pandemic. My purpose for republishing is that the value of the conversations with leading experts around the globe is still relevant and will continue to be a touchstone for empowering business and community leaders with innovation and compassion during challenging times.
Music by UbudPaece
Episode transcription
April Qureshi (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to the leader lounge community where great leaders bridge the gap between people and performance. I’m your host, April Qureshi in today’s episode, I’m speaking with Liam Gillon. Liam has dedicated much of the last 15 years to bringing the yoga teachings and yoga philosophies into the business world. Liam holds an MBA and is a former senior level executive and business consultant. And today we are talking about how to bring a mindful approach to leadership while still driving your business forward.
April Qureshi (00:47):
Welcome Liam.
Liam Gillen (00:49):
Thank you April. It’s a pleasure to be here with you.
April Qureshi (00:52):
Thank you. And you as well. And so today we’re talking about bringing a mindful approach to leadership. And so, you know, considering your diverse range of, of background in leadership in business and now as a yoga teacher and facilitator, can you share with us your philosophy on connecting to the individual and why that’s important, especially during the times that we’re facing now?
Liam Gillen (01:22):
Yes, I think the way we speak and the motivation behind what we say, I think it plays an enormous role in the heart connection, in the value connection between two people. And I think more so than ever just the understanding that everybody that we talk to that we meet is suffering. Everybody is suffering to some degree and in different ways, but everybody’s carrying a burden. And if we can be empathetic to the other person that we’re talking with, then it puts us on a level playing field rather than the normal superior employer, employee relationship. I think that as much as anything, if we relate to each other as humans first, then the relationship can really flourish. I found that people respond so much more when they know that they play a valued role and that they’re not just another body in the organization, but that what they do and what they say and who they are is valued. It changes the dynamic dramatically.
April Qureshi (02:48):
Yeah. That’s beautiful. So recognizing a person for who they are and having that heart centered connection. And so in a business setting, yeah. You know, how does that play out? Like, I mean, in real estate, you’ve got your clients, you’ve got, you know, as a broker, you’ve got your other agents that you need to care for. Yeah. And the co casino business, you know, that’s a huge business people coming in and out of any one location at any time, like how do we do that when there’s so much going on, there’s so many people involved pieces of the puzzle,
Liam Gillen (03:22):
How do we, and, and the, and the, and the, the change, the rapid of change in everybody’s environment now dramatically impacts people consciously and subconsciously. I think one of the for me, the way I’ve operated has been to create a safe space for somebody. If somebody feels that what, that I’m listening. So conscious listening, because I, before I used to be listening and I would think up my answer before they were finished. So at some point in the conversation, I’d stopped listening because I was all waiting for them to stop. So I could tell them what I wanted them to know or what I wanted them to do. And when you changed to being willing to give up my demand of how it should work out, and I just allow something to evolve in the moment, then the other person consciously and unconsciously responds to that because now, you know, you’re being listened to, which is a very intense practice, active listening, and it requires energy and concentration and practice.
Liam Gillen (04:39):
So that’s one of the things I think that that shows respect and honor for the person you’re talking to, that you’re willing to listen wholeheartedly and be willing to hear what they have to say. I don’t necessarily have to agree with what you say, and I don’t necessarily have to implement what you say, but I have to allow that to come in because that’s reality, right? Allow reality to come in and then respond from what I’m hearing rather than me just saying, no, no, this is the way it is. Just go do that. And there are times when, especially in emergencies where you just do this because it’s an emergency, but on a day to day basis, I think once people know that they’re respected, they start to feel safe and interrupt me anytime you want April. Okay. If I go off on a tangent, the other part then is what happens is once somebody feels safe, then they start revealing the truth of what they think as opposed to what they think you want to hear.
Liam Gillen (05:46):
And there’s a dramatic difference in that level of communication, because, you know, if I don’t feel safe, the last thing I’m gonna do is stick my neck out and say what I think you should be doing such and such, because I’m likely to get turfed out the door. So if I create a safe space for you to say anything at all, again, I can lay out the parameters in advance. Everything goes, nothing is wrong. It’s like brainstorming, right? Nothing is wrong. I might not necessarily do what you want, but I’m gonna hear what you have to say. Can, you can see where that would create such a, an immense level of engagement. You know, I, I found that over the years, that when I took this time to be willing to meet the people that I worked with, where they are, we developed a real team spirit that became, because now they’re able to say whatever they need to say, and they know that they’re gonna be heard. And so that creates a level of trust. And once you have trust, authentic trust, not bribing trust, I’ll give you this. If once you have a level of trust and respect, then people engage from their own level of integrity, which is way above what money can buy.
Liam Gillen (07:19):
That’s a big one, right?
April Qureshi (07:21):
I’m getting goosebumps. I just, what you said was really profound and trust came up for me, engaging in that level of trust, where the other person has the space to be authentic themselves. And so, you know, as a leader as a, as a team leader, or as an organizational leader, or maybe just a leader in the community, how do we let go of that need to be someone and, and just allow our authentic self to shine through so that we can allow others to do the same in return.
Liam Gillen (08:05):
And the amazing thing about it. And I’ll answer that. The amazing thing about it is when we do this, the people that you work with elevate you,
Liam Gillen (08:17):
So you are elevating them and in turn, they elevate you. So you are given it, you are given this level of credibility and authority relevant, taking it. And again, there’s a huge difference in that. The idea that servant leadership there’s, you hear that Bandi Iran, right in yoga, we teach that you wanna be what you’re doing it for. So if I’m operating from a basis of fear, I gotta get this or else, then I’m going to be my actions. And my thoughts are gonna be driven by fear. And fear is a very limiting contracting mindset. It actually limits access to certain parts of the brain, the prefrontal corporate cortex mm-hmm . And so when I’m operating from that context, I’m literally contracting everybody around me and I’m actually handicapping my business.
April Qureshi (09:24):
You’re handicapping your business.
Liam Gillen (09:25):
Absolutely. Because now the whole business and all the employees are operating from fear. And everybody’s op I lead by example that I work and I’m seen to work, and there’s not any job in the organization that I’m not willing to do, which is from scrubbing pots in the kitchen to holding a conference on zoom. Why would I be any more valued than this person? I just happen to be in a leadership role. And the way we’ve developed the system is the people at the top get more money. It didn’t always, it wasn’t always like that, that there was such a disparity between the corporate executives and the average person on the floor. And I think that that’s one of the reasons that there’s such a high level of chronic stress in this country is that people are working under the under fear
April Qureshi (10:27):
Hmm.
Liam Gillen (10:27):
Consciously or unconsciously they’re just so you’re unconsciously, they’re fearful of losing your job, losing their home, losing their their health insurance. And I’m freezing right now in my little video. So I’m hoping that you’re okay. And that we just keep recording
April Qureshi (10:47):
It’s coming through. Yeah.
Liam Gillen (10:49):
Okay, great.
Liam Gillen (10:51):
That… getting this weird thing going on in my screen. So being able to acknowledge somebody for what they do, I mean, how important is that to be able to acknowledge every person that you interact with? So here’s a little story. I once ran a marathon once and it was an interesting experience and I’m glad I did it. And at right at the beginning, I ended up running alongside this guy who had never met before. And everybody, he went by, he’s going, hi. Hi. Hi. And I’m looking, I’m like, looking him going. What’s wrong with this guy, 26 miles of this, this guy’s consistent. And he’s saying, hi. Hi. Hi. Hi 20 miles into it. I’m going. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. He was infectious. He was acknowledging the people that he was meeting on the street. So you go into a building, there’s somebody at the door. Good morning. There’s somebody taking out your garbage good morning. There’s somebody cutting your grass. Good morning. There’s somebody making coffee. There’s somebody good morning everywhere. Acknowledging the people with authenticity with a, and you can only give that if you have it. Right. So if I’m a miserable leader, I’m gonna have a miserable team.
Liam Gillen (12:14):
Yeah. If I’m a happy leader, I’m gonna have a happy team. If I share my happiness with them,
April Qureshi (12:22):
It’s really simple.
Liam Gillen (12:25):
Yeah.
April Qureshi (12:25):
But, but maybe not easy. This is, this is a string that’s coming through. And a lot of these talks that we’re doing at this summit is that these principles are, are actually really simple, but maybe challenging to execute. But when we come from the heart and we lead from the heart and be authentic, it seems to be that, you know, this is, what’s connecting us during the global crisis because I mean, this is the first time. I mean, I’m only, I’m only you know, 21. No, actually I turned 50 the other day. So I’m only 50. Happy, fair to say, thank you. But, you know, so there was the, you know, the 20% interest rates in the eighties and then the, the financial crisis in 2009. So, but this is the first time where it’s happening to everybody.
Liam Gillen (13:26):
Yeah.
April Qureshi (13:28):
I’m wondering, like, what do you see as a common value? That’s different than a month ago globally? You know? So when we talk about value, what do you see that’s different from a month or so ago, six weeks ago, that might just stay around. That’s really a good thing for all of us.
Liam Gillen (13:52):
Hmm. So there’s two things that just jumped in my mind. One is that in every, if you take 10 people, there’s a spectrum. Some people are gonna be on this end of the spectrum. Some people are gonna be on this end of the spectrum. So some people that went through this process operating in fear are gonna go, I can’t stand this. I’ve been in prison and I don’t wanna do this anymore. And they’re gonna have had a horrible time. And they’ve been fighting with their significant other and their kids and their neighbors and whatever. And then the other end of the spectrum is, oh my God, this is great. I have free time. Look at how beautiful it is outside. I’ve been able to do some stuff around the hubs. And so there’s different people approaching the same thing. And the same thing with regards to even within the company, when I become a vulnerable leader, there are people who will be repulsed by that. They will be very uncomfortable with that. And there will be people who will be drawn to that because that’s what they’re looking for. They’re looking for value, a value relationship in exchange for their life because we’re given away 8, 10, 12 hours a day to pay the bills. I, one of the things that we talked briefly before about what’s changed, and I think so much of the reward for work has moved to the top echelon, the organizations.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Hmm.
Liam Gillen (15:29):
That’s interesting. And the reason being that the public market, the public entity demands expansion, that what’s their growth rate. How much are they gonna grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. And I think in the process of demanding grow growth, the human resource has been ignored. It’s just another asset. It’s like raw material. They’re easily exchanged below a certain level. You just push ’em through in the casino business. The reason casinos are successful is the number of people they have come through the door. It’s not how much you have in your pocket. It’s how many people come through the door. So there’s no real okay. So let me come back. So if, if people coronavirus experience, experience realizing that we don’t need as much food as we had, we don’t need as many clothes as we had. We don’t need as
Liam Gillen (16:41):
Then. Maybe some industries might consider changing the drive for constant expansion and take some of the money that’s made and invest it back into the human resource, invest it back into the community, invest immunity, invest it back into the education system, because that’s what we used to do. That’s what some companies used to do. There’s all, again, there’s the full spectrum of people that just rape and pillage, and then there’s other people who are responsible leaders. So maybe on a global scale, we could come out of this experience thinking I don’t need as much as I wanted. I don’t need to work as hard as I worked or as incessantly. Maybe I do need to take my vacations, even though the company would prefer, I don’t. And maybe I need to develop more time with my kids, develop more time for a hobby. Maybe that the individual now might realize that the decision of how they live their life is ultimately theirs rather than giving it to the, to the company, to the job. But instead come back and say, well, no, wait a minute. I need to live a balanced life. There’s the work and there’s the play and there’s my growth and my health and my relationships. And maybe I need to put energy in all of these areas. That would be an interesting outcome.
April Qureshi (18:34):
Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, realistically, how, you know, when you think of companies growing, like just continual growth, you know, how sustainable is that realistically? Like, I mean, no one being can sustain continued growth forever. Right? Like, and I, I, I, right. You know, it feels like, you know, mother nature or however you wanna look at the global pandemic, you know, is just saying everybody stop. Right. And, and look at, you know, the canals in Venice, like in two weeks, they start flourishing with all this wildlife that’s come back and, you know, for the first time in decades, you can see the Himalaya mountains and the north of India. So it didn’t take long for mother nature to wind back up. And so, you know, taking a, an enforced rest is, is been kind of interesting. So,
Liam Gillen (19:27):
You know, I would say that’s probably the first time in history that’s ever happened.
April Qureshi (19:31):
Yeah. Yeah. I wonder someone, some research, but yeah, it’s curious, right. Like the whole world,
Liam Gillen (19:39):
It’s very curious that the whole world kind of went, okay, let’s just stop for a little bit, and I’m not into the one world order and all the rest of it, but more than ever, people have got to be aware that there’s a global village and that everything that we do here impacts everywhere else, you know, the pebble in the water. And so we are the biggest consumers.
April Qureshi (20:05):
Yeah.
Liam Gillen (20:07):
Why?
April Qureshi (20:09):
Yeah.
Liam Gillen (20:10):
You know, why do we have to be the biggest consumers? Why do we have to have the biggest growth? Right. And why do we, yeah. I mean, there’s so much that could be done to improve the quality of life. Have you seen the I dunno, she’s called the prime minister of New Zealand totally. Very recently within the last week has announced that she’s changing the country’s focus from growth to the wellbeing of the people.
April Qureshi (20:44):
That’s her new mandate.
Liam Gillen (20:45):
Yep.
April Qureshi (20:46):
Wow.
Liam Gillen (20:46):
Isn’t that wonderful.
April Qureshi (20:48):
That’s amazing.
Liam Gillen (20:49):
I believe Butan is the only other place I know of in the world where the wellbeing of people is measured instead of the GDP.
April Qureshi (21:00):
Wow. Imagine if we all did that,
Liam Gillen (21:04):
Huh?
April Qureshi (21:04):
Imagine if we all did that,
Liam Gillen (21:07):
You would talk about changing the world dramatically, right. I mean we’re driven by an incessant consumption mentality that as you said is completely unsustainable. I mean, we’re pillaging the earth for growth, for resources, and I’ve read and heard in the past that we throw away 40% of the food we produce. We dump more clothes in the landfills every year than we used to all own collectively. And so we, the, the drive to produce stuff cheaper and cheaper and cheaper so we can buy more and more and more, and it’s insanity.
April Qureshi (21:52):
Hmm.
Liam Gillen (21:54):
That’s insanity. And the people that need to change are the owners of the companies.
April Qureshi (22:03):
And so how do we do that? Like, you know, you and I both know that sitting in stillness and, you know, allowing the inner wisdom to arise from that stillness can be a guiding principle in our lives so that we are living our true purpose. And so how does a leader who’s, you know, part of a, maybe a bigger organization or maybe a small organization, they all have stakeholders, right. We all have employees, we have suppliers, right. That are all relying on, on us. And so how do we, what’s like just one simple thing that we can do to be mindful about, about, you know, growth and being mindful towards our, you know, our, our people. What’s one thing, one simple thing that, that a leader can do
Liam Gillen (22:58):
Well, it’s interesting, cuz you said it, you, we can practice certain things that enhance our connection to, you know, mindfulness and meditation and all the rest of it. So you’re either brought up in an environment where that’s prevalent, mindfulness is prevalent or you have to come across some event that propels you into the desire to change. Mm-Hmm , that’s unfortunate, but pain’s a great motivator
April Qureshi (23:36):
yeah.
Liam Gillen (23:36):
Right. Yep. It’s a great motivator. So it’s actually a bigger motivator than carrots
April Qureshi (23:44):
yeah. Yeah.
Liam Gillen (23:46):
So if you, you you can only change. Okay. What’s his name? It’ll come to me in a second. He had a great expression. He said, if you changed the way you see the world, the world, you see changes.
April Qureshi (24:09):
Yeah. Wasn’t that Gandhi
Liam Gillen (24:11):
Actually it was win Dyer.
April Qureshi (24:13):
Okay.
Liam Gillen (24:14):
If you change the way you see the world, the world, you see changes. And if you think about that, how do I change the way I see the world? It’s an inside job. I can’t, I can put on glasses and I can change my vision. I can ch I can do exercise and I’ll change my physique. But if I want to change the world that I experience first, I have to do the internal work, the internal work of seeing what it is that’s driving me. So I’m either driven again. I said earlier, driven by fear or driven by a grounded, mindful presence, spiritual awareness of the fact that I’m just not an individual, that there’s a connection to everything. So if I am driven by fear, then eh, I’m gonna stay on the treadmill until I run into the wall enough times where I go, wait a minute, why am I still running into this wall? What do I do? If I move into the idea that I’m gonna change internally so that I can change my experience of the world, that has a ripple effect on the people around me.
Liam Gillen (25:34):
So change me and my change then is authentic. It’s valued by most people. Some people might be a little uncomfortable, but a lot of people will love it. And it will be attractive because people are drawn to that. Authenticity. People are drawn to integrity. So that’s how we do it. We change ourselves. So the people that are listening are the architects for the future, because you wouldn’t be listening to this. If you didn’t have a desire to change what’s happening in your life and the way and the world that you’re experiencing. So by you engaging in a practice to develop a connection, a mindful connection internally to the spirit, within to the heart center, moving from the head to the heart. If you do that journey, then you will change the world around you.
April Qureshi (26:42):
And are, are you speaking from experience? I imagine you’re speaking from experience.
Liam Gillen (26:46):
Well, I hope I’m speaking from experience. Yeah. I went from being in the casino business, which is an interesting business, a cruise ship business, working at a small private university. I went to Bible college. I went, I thought I was gonna go into ministry and I didn’t do that. But what I’m recognizing is that the spiritual life is to be applied regardless of where you are.
Liam Gillen (27:13):
It used to be that the spiritual realm was reserved for the monks and the deities and the guys who went and lived in caves, but they no everybody’s called to it. That’s what mindfulness is. It’s being mindful of the present moment. And you can only be … there’s an interesting one. You can only be happy in the present moment.
April Qureshi (27:41):
Mm
Liam Gillen (27:42):
That’s a good motivation for mindfulness, because if I’m not in the present moment, I’m either in the past, which is filled with fear and regret and shame and blame and guilt and whatever, or I’m in the future. What if planning the wreckage of the future? What if the coronavirus gets me? What if, what if they’ve run outta food? What if the electricity goes off? Well, you know, so now I’m driven by fear. If I’m in the present moment, I grant myself connect to my breath, connect to my heart. All of a sudden I go, oh my God, I’m okay. There are people who are really hurting in this world, billions of people who are hurting in this world. And we’re worried about whether we can get our latte, our priorities, we have to, we have to become conscious internally. And the only way, the way to do that is to become mind. Mindfulness is being in the present moment. Being in the present moment, involves me connecting to the energy. That’s moving me and living me, the autonomic nervous system that fills me with joy and pleasure. You know, it Wells up from the heart. You’ve had that experience right. Everywhere. Just, it just emerges from you. You don’t, nothing has to happen for you to experience it. It just comes out. I feel great. Yeah. As opposed to, am I gonna have a nice drink, a nice meal, I’m gonna do something to give me a temporary relief.
Liam Gillen (29:21):
So there’s the external relief, which is good. And I’m not saying not, but for the real permanent joy experience in life, mindfulness demands, we come into the present moment. And that is a moment by moment, day by day practice. And the rewards are unbelievable.
April Qureshi (29:45):
Sounds amazing.
Liam Gillen (29:46):
Sign up here.
April Qureshi (29:50):
Well, yeah. And it’s interesting because in business we’re always planning, right. We’re planning for the future. We’re making goals, we’re setting goals and you know, we’re but so how do, how do we, yeah. So how do we be in the present moment connected the now while still, you know, having like this dream or this goal, you know,
Liam Gillen (30:10):
That’s a great question. That’s truly a great question. And so here’s because I remember asking that question and here’s the answer I got. Well, when you plan, which is essential because you really wanna be able to identify where you’re going and what you’re doing when you plan oops. You still there.
April Qureshi (30:33):
I’m here.
Liam Gillen (30:34):
Okay, good. Sorry. When you plan, you sit down and you say, okay I’m gonna plan for the next 12 months for my business, but I, first of all, I have to be at peace with myself. I can’t be operating from fear. Otherwise I’m making plans or fear.
April Qureshi (30:54):
Hmm.
Liam Gillen (30:54):
I’m gonna manifest what I currently am. I can’t be in fear today and manifest peace tomorrow.
April Qureshi (31:02):
Oh, can you say that again?
Liam Gillen (31:04):
I cannot be in fear today and plan to manifest peace tomorrow because there is only now.
April Qureshi (31:14):
That’s
Liam Gillen (31:15):
And if I’m in fear, now I’m going to reproduce fear in the future. So I have to get present now. And when I’m present, now I’m at peace. And from that point, I plan the next 12 months or the next month or the next week. And I say, okay, for the next hour, I’m gonna plan or the next 30 minutes, whatever it is that I’ve all allowed myself. And I make all my plans. And then I put ’em all done. And I put ’em in my file and I go, okay, there it is. And then I surrender the way it’s going to show up. And here’s why, because if I say, I wanna have X amount of revenue over this month for the next 12 months I’m taking the future as a reformation of past experience. And in mindfulness in present moment, thinking the future is unlimited. It’s bountiful that if you look around us, nature is constantly expanding. It is unlimited in its expansion. So why limit how the future is going to deliver to me by my past experience, which is this much compared to what could potentially happen. So I set the goal of making a million dollars, but I’m happy with whatever turns up.
April Qureshi (32:57):
Mm-Hmm , I think that’s a key
Liam Gillen (33:01):
All along the way,
April Qureshi (33:02):
All along the way, it’s the journey, not the destination. I think that’s where we get messed up. As people, as leaders is like, we think something has to happen. Like we want something to happen and if we don’t, we’re gonna make it happen.
April Qureshi (33:17):
Yeah. And if we don’t get it, we’re not satisfied. Right. And I remember, I remember.
Liam Gillen (33:22):
Yeah,
April Qureshi (33:23):
No, I just remember Jack Canfield with his chicken soup for the soul. He, this is the story that I heard was that, you know, he saw his book on the bookshelf. Like he envisioned it and you know, him and his wife set a goal. I think it was a hundred thousand. So this was the eighties. So that was pretty good money back then. Yeah. And I think he ended up making with this first book, $87,000. And so, you know, Jack Canfield, did he meet his goals? You know, some may say, no, he didn’t, he was 13% off. But when you look at it from the way you’re saying it is that we did, you know, we accomplished something, we set out to do something and yes. You know, we did that. And though monetarily, we didn’t exactly meet what we expected. We still went through the process and did the thing. Right. Like we actually did. And you know, there was some golden nuggets along the way and some reward with that, for sure. And so being,
Liam Gillen (34:25):
He could just as easily have made $120,000. It would’ve been the same outcome, right?
April Qureshi (34:31):
Yeah. Yeah.
Liam Gillen (34:35):
So the, the thing is, if I’m driving all the time, again, I’m back in stress. If I’m in stress, there’s no joy. And the whole point of life is to experience joy. I think … I haven’t found anything better.
April Qureshi (34:57):
Liam Gillen (34:58):
And I’ve tried a lot of stuff, but I haven’t found anything better. So if the purpose is to experience joy along the way, I can set expectations, but not be attached to them. You’ve heard of that. Mm-Hmm not being attached to expectations. Mm-Hmm set plans in motion, communicate them effectively, embrace them as a team and move towards them and talk all along the way in a grounded, honoring fashion, all along the way. And wherever you end up in a year, you’re all gonna be a happy bunch. People working together.
April Qureshi (35:39):
There has to be a lot of trust there, right?
Liam Gillen (35:41):
Yes. Well, that’s something you build your shareholders might be like who? Wait a minute. No, no, no, no. I need you driving the drive.
April Qureshi (35:51):
Mm-Hmm
Liam Gillen (35:52):
Mm-Hmm but they’re gonna run up against their wall one day, maybe whatever. I know. I dunno. All those answers gone.
April Qureshi (36:01):
yeah.
Liam Gillen (36:03):
so I gave you a quote the other day. What was it?
April Qureshi (36:07):
Sorry, say again,
Liam Gillen (36:09):
There was a quote that I shared with you the other day, what you do speaks so loudly. I can’t hear what you’re saying.
April Qureshi (36:18):
What you speak, what you say speaks so loud or what you do…
Liam Gillen (36:23):
What you do speaks so loudly. I can’t hear what you’re saying.
April Qureshi (36:30):
Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about that. It’s one of those terrible effects with people.
Liam Gillen (36:36):
Well, it’s the actions, it’s the actions. I can be placating you with sweet words, to get you, to manipulate you and be nice and get you to give me an upgrade at the check-in desk, please miss. And that’s my words. And my actions are, what can I do to help you? How can I help you be successful? What is it that you’re missing? What is holding you back? Is there something I can do? And I know that you revealing that to me makes you vulnerable, but I trust, I promise you that I will do everything in my power to help you be successful.
April Qureshi (37:29):
Beautiful. Is there anything that you wanna add, as we wrap up.
Liam Gillen (37:34):
No, I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you. It’s been delight. I’ve really enjoyed it. Thank you for giving me the time and being such a mindful listener.
April Qureshi (37:47):
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Such in, in, you know, wisdom and insight and you know, for me I realize that business is a spiritual path. And so I think you can appreciate that. And so not only does it bring, you know, monetary rewards, but it also brings personal satisfaction and, and you know, so I think there’s a connection there, which is really nice and comfortable. And Liam, I wanna thank you today for joining us and sharing your insights on a mindful approach to leadership. Thank you.
Liam Gillen (38:27):
Thank you, my honour.
April Qureshi (38:30):
Thank you for tuning in to the Leader Lounge Community podcast. If you enjoyed this episode today, be sure to hit follow and share with your friends and community. Until next time, I’m April, Qureshi, bye for now.